| VL: |
No, I wasn't
looking for it. I was too scared... put it that way, cause I
ain't going to say I wasn't scared, cause (chuckles) I was
scared, I guess I'm a coward, but I was scared.
|
| CJC:
BC: |
(to Betty Cash) OK,
can you recall if you saw more than one flame at a time?
I wasn't looking at the flames, I was looking for a way
out.
|
| CJC: |
I understand. Ah...
the reason I'm asking... did it have one engine or several
engines or... from what you could tell?
|
| BC: |
I wish they would
have asked me that when I was under hypnotism.
(pause)
|
| CJC: |
OK. Prior to this
incident, Ms. Landrum, have you been treated for any illness or
problems?
|
| VL:
CJC: |
No sir.
Have you been in the operation... ah, in the hospital for a
operation?
|
| VL: |
Well ah, about
twenty... three years, 22 years ago, I had hysterectomy.
Other than that, I have never had nothing really wrong with me
till this.
|
| CJC: |
Now would you
please give us your address and your age?, your current
address.
|
| VL: |
My current address
is 506 West Clayton, Dayton Texas. The ZIP code is 77535, and
I'm 57 years old.
|
| CJC: |
OK. Um... Terry, do
you have any questions?... Oh, one other question: who is
the doctor that's been treating you?
|
| VL:
CJC: |
Ah... Dr. Chandler
in Liberty.
Liberty Texas?
|
| VL: |
Um humm... and he's
only an eye doctor, but he... I got all faith in him because he
has a doctor that work with him that is uh.. is one
(unintelligible) one of the best I think, that uh... and he told
me that when he couldn't do for my eyes anymore that when he
felt he wasn't capable of giving me what I needed that he would
turn me over to this doctor and uh... you can't ask for nothing
better than that.
|
| CJC: |
Let me ask you
regarding the skin problems, and your hair loss, have you talked
to any other physician about that?
|
| VL:
BC:
VL:
CJC: |
No, nothing but Uh
Doctor.... (to Betty Cash) what's his name?
Shoney.
Dr. Shoney... yeah I talked to Dr. Shoney.
Is this the same doctor that Ms. Cash had been seeing?
|
| VL: |
Yes, but I never
did see him as a patient, I was there now with Betty so much and
talked to him, but ah, this doctor that saw me was... (to Betty)
what was his name?
|
| CL:
VL:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC: |
Easley.
... that said that about the...
Oh, uh... Easley, Dr. Easley radiologist at the Medical
Center in Houston.
... at the Medical Center.
Where? ... in Houston?
Uh huh.
Did he tell you anything?
|
| VL: |
No sir, nobody's
never told me nothing. Except my family doctor told me
that he couldn't doctor me because he didn't know nothing about
it and he didn't... that he would do me more harm than good and
he wasn't about to.
|
| CJC:
VL: |
OK, now have you
had to pay any doctor bills as a result of this.
Yes sir!
|
| CJC: |
Can you give us
some idea of how much you've had in the way of doctor bills...
Ms. Landrum?
|
| VL: |
Let's see...(pause)
I'd say approximately about six or seven hundred dollars on my
eyes and Colby's eyes.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CJC:
CJC
BC: |
OK, alright... and
how about you Ms. Cash? Can you give us any... ?
I would imagine that mine has been around ten thousand
dollars, or better.
OK...
(End of cassette side "A")
... seven hundred dollars on my eyes and Colby's
eyes.
OK, alright... and how about you Ms. Cash? Can you give
us any... ?
I would imagine that mine has been around ten thousand
dollars, or better.
|
| CJC: |
OK... alright now
let me ask you ah... and again would you give me just a basic
physical description of yourself, height and weight-wise, would
you mind doing that for me Ms. Cash?, just for the
record.
|
| BC: |
Well I'm supposed
to be five-five and a half, but I think I shrink with age
(laughs)... and I weigh 112 pounds... now, because I have lost
some weight.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CJC:
VL:
CJC |
What was your
weight at the time of the incident?
118.
OK, and you Ms. Landrum, would you describe yourself?
Well, I'm five feet exactly and I weigh uh... well I weigh
about 138 pounds.
OK, and how much... have you suffered any weight loss?
|
| VL: |
Um... well, yes
sir, cause I weighed a hundred... about 162 pounds, I was too
heavy, so its... I guess my weight loss has done me a little
good. (chuckles) (unintelligible)-wise.
|
| CJC:
CL:
CJC: |
OK.
Where's the bathroom at?
... the bathroom at?... um... will you take
him...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) but
now the little boy, now he went from a size... I mean... he
uh... he was in a 6 slim blue jean and they fit him perfect, and
when I went to buy him some clothes the other day, and I got
them on him, and I had to go back to a 5 slim blue jean...
|
| CJC: |
OK...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) ...
But what's so terrible about it, now this is what the doctor in
Houston told me and another... um... even that Dr. Rank from
Wisconsin... he told me the same thing, that there's a
possibility within the next, he'd be safe to say within the next
eight to twelve years that Colby would come down with a form of
leukemia, which wouldn't be leukemia, but... and if he was
treated for leukemia it could kill him.
|
| CJC: |
Who was the doctor
that was telling you this?
|
| VL&BC: |
Oh... ah...
wasn't it Dr. Shoney and a Dr. Peter Rank said there's a
possibility because they don... I mean, nobody knows how much
radiation he might have consumed, or what kind it might could
been, but it had to be radiation to have burned us like we were
burned.
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
BC:
CJC: |
Let me ask you Ms.
Landrum, is there any history of ah... cancer in your
family?
No.
OK, have you ever had a relative or blood relative that had
had cancer?
No.... no.
OK, ... Ms. Cash... ?
No.
Alright now...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) I had
a son that was a diabetic, my mother was a diabetic, but there's
never been a cancer.
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL
CJC |
Now help me with...
is it Coby?
Uh huh.
How do you spell...
C-O-L-B-Y.
Colby, C-O-L-B-Y.
Right.
Now is... whose son is he?
|
| VL: |
He's my... um...
His father's name is Paul Landrum he's my son, he's my middle
son and him and his wife divorced when Colby was seven months
old and he couldn't take care of him, and uh... his mother
didn't want him... so...
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL:
CJC:
VL: |
(breaking in) OK,
so Colby's your grandson living with you.
Right, I've got custody of him, he's my responsibility; he's
mine... you know?
OK, do you live with anybody else?
My husband.
OK, and what's his name?
His name's Art (unintelligible) Wilson Landrum... Senior.
|
| CJC: |
Alright. is there
anything else that y'all can... tell us that would...
about the incident as far as... has anybody else within the Air
Force or within the government contacted you... about this
incident?
|
| VL: |
No. And I wrote
Charles Wilson, he wrote me back a write-off letter and I turned
it over and wrote him a letter back.
|
| CJC: |
You say a write-off
letter...?
|
| VL: |
Huh!... Well it was
a thing where UFOs had been discontinued since nineteen and
seventy three I believe it said, and he gave me a whole list of
who I MIGHT be able to contact.... and I turned it back over and
I told him exactly how I felt and I...
|
| BC: |
Well, I said one
thing... I laid in that hospital and suffered that thirteen days
before I would even level with my doctor.
|
| VL: |
I told Colby not to
tell nobody...
|
| BC: |
... 'cause I didn't
want anybody to think I was crazy 'cause I had never believed in
things like this. But it definitely didn't have little green men
with pointed ears.
|
| CJC:
VL&BC:
CJC:
CL: |
Did you see
anybody?
No we didn't see nobody... no.
Let me talk to Colby a minute. Colby, how old are you?
Seven.
|
| CJC: |
'Kay... let's get a
little bit closer here so we make sure we get down everything
you're saying on this tape, OK?
|
| CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL: |
OK.
Now, why don't you tell me what you saw... that night.
I don't know what it was, but all I know is it was some kind
of object.
What color was it?
Kinda yellowish-red.
Yellowish-red?... and uh... how long did you see it?
Uh... for about... stayed there for about... 15 to 20
minutes.
OK, now what happened whenever you saw it?... what did you
feel like?
(pause)... I just... wondered what it was... sitting there
wondering what it was.
What happened to your body when you looked at it?
I didn't feel nothing until I got up the next morning.
What happened the next morning?
I just had... bad virus.
|
| CJC: |
Bad virus? Why
don't you tell me what happened.... did you go to the
bathroom... what happened when you went to the bathroom?
|
| CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC:
CL: |
Runny... it was all
runny.
It was all runny? What about your stomach?
It was just hurting real bad.
Did you throw up any?
Uh.. don't remember if I did or not.
What happened to your hair?
Just a little... little bitty place started coming out.
Did you lose all of your hair or just part of it?
Part of it.
Ok...
(continuing) ... not even part of it really, just that spot
right there.
Right... The top of your head? .. right here, the
crown?
Uh huh...
(continuing) ... on the very tip-top part of your head? What
about your eyes?
They... every time I get in the pool, they start... getting
real red.
The swimming pool? What happens to your skin when you get in
the sunlight?
Sunburned.
Does it burn real fast after you've been out there?, or do
you have to be out for awhile?
Have to be out there for about a hour or 30 minutes.
|
| CJC: |
OK... what happened
to your face whenever you... later on after you saw this thing
in the sky... what happened to you?
|
| CL: |
I don't remember,,.
it's been so long ago.
|
| CJC: |
It's been what?,
six months ago?... Did you have any problem with a blister on
your side of your face?
|
| CL:
CJC:
CL:
CJC: |
CL:
(pause)... yes... a little bit.
CJC: OK, what happened?
CL: They started popping ... uh... every time I
got in the sun they'd pop.
CJC: OK. Are you sick anymore?
|
| CL: |
Sometimes... this
morning... my stomach was starting to hurt this morning... when
I was eating... went to Dairy Queen to eat.
|
| CJC: |
What about whenever
you go to the bathroom? Do you still have problems with it being
real soft?
|
| CL: |
Mmmmmmmm.
|
| CJC: |
OK, alright. Thank
you Colby... Um... regarding relative to Colby, have you had any
expenses regarding his treatment?
|
| VL: |
Nothing but his
eyes, I've been doctoring him at home for the simple reason that
um... see I always worked, and uh... when I got so I couldn't
work anymore... on what my husband makes... he has a good job,
compared to what, you know... not compared to what some people
have, but his take home pay is $243.00 a week, by the time we
pay rent, bills and our car note and gas for him to go back and
to work, there's very little left for groceries much less for
medical bills... so I doctor him at home, or I don't doctor him,
unless... if he was to get real real sick because they couldn't
find out what was wrong with Betty, and I'm not going to put him
through all this... all of that unless they come up with
something that they can that they can doctor him with, without
doctoring him for everything under the book.
|
| CJC:
|
Let me ask you,
your relationship again... was just one of friends? or are y'all
related by blood?
|
| BC&VL: |
Friends...
|
| VL: |
I was working after
work, at a little place she had out on the... and we were
moving, in the process of moving to a bigger place, and we were
just out riding around, you know like friends do, and we run
into this thing, and just like I wrote the uh... congress, and
uh... way I feel, that if our government don't know what that
was that hurt us... we're in a bad shape... because it had to be
manmade.
|
| CJC: |
Uh huh... why do
you say it had to be manmade?
|
| VL: |
Well, I don't think
nobody... don't think there are any little green men out there
to make one.
|
| CJC:
VL:
CJC:
BC: |
So you don't
believe in life on other planets.
I sure didn't.
OK... how about you Ms. Cash?
I never have believed in it either.
|
| CJC: |
OK. So its fair to
say then, let me see if you agree with this, that you ah... saw
this object in the sky and it was being accompanied by some
helicopters which you believe to be from the United States Air
Force.... and...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) I
don't say it's from the Air Force... I didn't see no sign... no
name on them or nothing, I was too busy, like said wish the
baby, and when we stopped looking at them and everything, he was
showing me, you know, the kind, and, but they had the twin
rotaries on them, and when we had our um... aircraft day rodeo,
there was one just like the one we saw that lit in Dayton with a
load of uh... National Guard that was going to march in the
parade that evening, and I went up there and talked to the
helicopter... I mean I didn't say a word, we was just talking
about uh... the shape of a helicopter and everything, it was
just astonishing. And I said, do these things ever fly
anymore? And he said we were called out the night of the
29th by the Harris county
Sheriff's Department...
|
| BC: |
Montgomery
County... Montgomery County.
|
| VL: |
Montgomery County
Sheriff's Department, and when a certain person ah...
confronted him with it, he told him that he had heard about the
incident but they wasn't called out. But that exactly what he
told me, and I've got his autograph because of, you know, a
little boy back up there, I got his autograph, and it's right
there.
|
| CJC:
BC:
VL: |
OK, Do you have
that with you?
Did I bring that with me?
Yeah, I hope you did.
|
| CJC: |
Why don't you give
us everything that you brought with you that's related to this,
ah... to what you saw, and if there's any way we can make copies
of it then we'll give it a try to.
|
| BC: |
(rummaging through
things) I'm not sure that Don gave me that...
|
| VL: |
Its in a red
envelope... shoot... I didn't ask him for that, he told me that
and then I guess he figured he'd said the wrong thing... but
uh... that's not it... nope...
|
| CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL&BC:
VL:
BC:
VL:
BC:
CL:
VL:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
PW:
CJC:
VL:
BC:
CJC:
PW:
CJC:
PW:
CJC:
BC:
VL:
CJC:
BC:
VL:
CTD: |
Is that a picture
of the type of helicopter?
What?
... of the type of helicopter you saw?
No, this is one that they're gonna be bringing out in
1981.
Have you got it?
Huh?
In your purse... it was in there, with those pictures.
Somebody... I hope we didn't go off and leave it...
Stay right here.
We didn't bring yours?
... yeah, I got mine, in the car.
Can I go outside and come back in?
Sure...
Do you know your way out?
Ms. Landrum, come... OK...
(leaving) ... I got my, uh...
Wait, wait, wait, wait, here it is, here it is- (laughs)
(loudly calling out) She found... Ms. Landrum!
I should be able to read the (unintelligible) on the
machine.
OK, Miss Wolf, would you take the photographs that ah... she
showed to us.
(to BC and VL) May I take those that you brought here today?
**** (All talking at once)
... and ah... the documents.... I
understand...
... (unintelligible) at home, I'm sorry... I'm not real proud
of that one there...
This is like...
I understand...
I just got to pull my wig off about a month ago...
This is like the helicopter that looked... and this is uh..
see this here? ...
Now you see that says Army National Guard....
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) Well,
I mean this... I've taken these pictures here by myself, 'cause
I was wanting to satisfy, cause when this one started over...
you know, Dayton, I was living right there the edge of Dayton,
he like to had a fit because he thought that the thing was
coming back to yet him.
|
| CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
BC:
VL:
CTD: |
Now you see, that
says Army National Guard, and a big...
Yeah but...
... insignia of Texas....
I know...
... did you see that at all, was that on the...?
(emphatic) No I did not!, because I was not in the city of
Dayton at the time.
**** (All talking at once)
She didn't, She didn't see this one...
No, no, no, no....
|
| CJC: |
Hold on a second...
We were talking on about the night in question, the night you
supposedly saw the object in the sky, the UFO.
|
| BC: |
No, no.
|
| VL: |
The only thing...
I... the only thing I can tell you is that, to me they, they
looked just like this, and I couldn't see nothing on them.
|
| CJC: |
How were you able
to count them at night?... did they...
|
| VL: |
Well, like I say, I
might have counted more or less, but I was saying: one, two,
three, because they were coming, I mean, even when we got down
there uh to the um, bank we could look back and there were some
that were, were going like... they were going toward it. I
mean some of them wasn't the double rotary type, some of them
was the other type, I mean just a... like, you know they weren't
quite as big, but what caught our eyes was the ones that had the
double rotaries up there.
|
| BC:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
BC: |
They're weird
looking.
OK...
Well they really were!
The double rotary one was the one you saw "U.S. Air
Force" on... ?
Right.
|
| CTD: |
... and it...
you did not remember seeing anything like... that looked like a
silhouette of the State of Texas?
|
| BC:
CJC:
VL:
BC:
VL:
BC:
CJC: |
No.
OK... Pat, see if we can make ah... copies of...
(breaking in) Well, I mean, I don't care if you have those
because the pilot told me that...
(breaking in) Well I do... 'cause that one's mine.
(to BC) No... what I'm talking about is I don't care if he
has a copy.
BC: Oh.... no I don't mind him having a copy.
CJC: OK... no, I'm going to give it back.
|
| VL: |
But... ah... ah...
he told me that and when I called this certain person... and
uh... he said, try to get his autograph... and uh... when I
said... look... the way I done it, I said well Lord be
Hallelujah, somebody has really... up and... really
somebody that, that really knew something was up there, you
know, and he says: "what you mean?". And I
said because we were the ones that were hurt that night.
And then when this guy called, well he had just heard about it,
he didn't...
|
|
CTD:
VL:
CTD: |
(break in
recording)
What does your husband do?
He works at Richmond Tank Company at Shelby.
What's his job, what... ?
|
| VL: |
He's a... um... he
runs a... uh, uh, uh, now wait now, let me... um...
(nervous laugh)... anyway...
|
| CL: |
Brake.
|
| VL: |
He did do brake
work, and now they got him where ah, he's old enough where he
just walks around a running the tests's on all the cars, they
call it some kind of tests, you know, where they test the
brakes, and if they any leaks, well then he tells somebody where
its happening.
|
| CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
VL:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CJC:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CL: |
Does he have some
type of medical insurance at all?
Yes sir, but you can't get no doctor to help you get into the
hospital or nothing.
But you did have some type of medical insurance.
Oh, yes sir.
What about you? Did you work anyplace?
I have Medicare.
OK. Did you work at that time anyplace?
No, no I wasn't... the reason we was just out tooling around.
Are you retired, or ... ?
No, I'm not retired, I'm just not able to go back to work.
Well, she did have her own business.
I had, well James did, I didn't, and I got a divorce.
OK, have you just gotten a divorce when this happened?
Right.
'Bout how long ago?
Well, I had filed for it in January, or February, and I had
gotten it in, what, July or August.
CJC: 1980?
BC: Yes... it was about six - seven months, when
I got it.
CTD: And you got the business that you... you and your
husband had?
BC: Closed it up.
CTD: You closed it up... what kind of business was it?
BC: It was a restaurant and a grocery store...
couldn't make no money (nervous laugh).
CL: Can we go for ice cream?
|
| CJC: |
OK, now I asked you
earlier, uh... you came here because Senator Benson had
recommended that you come here.
|
| BC: |
Yes.
|
| CJC: |
Is there anything
in particular you hope to gain by coming and talking with um...
us in the Air Force, to people in the Air Force?
|
| BC: |
(emphatically)
Sure! That's the main purpose we're here.
|
| CJC: |
Alright, would
you... this is again for you to tell me... why don't you tell me
what you hope to gain, Ms. Cash.
|
| BC: |
Well, I hope to
find out what the object was, and what the purpose of it was,
being there on the road at the time, and God forbid I don't ever
want anything to happen to any of my family or my friends, even
to you or your family, even to an animal to what I've had to go
through. It would satisfy my mind to find out what it was
and what it was doing there. I believe that our federal
government... we've GOT to have secrets, let's face it, in a
very severe time like we are going through right now...
|
| CL:
BC: |
Who's supposed to
protect us?
...but things that hurt the American people, then I think
it's time they should be stopped.
|
| CJC: |
OK, Ms. Landrum,
what is your hopes or aspirations with coming and talking with
us today?
|
| BC:
CL: |
Well, that's what
I'm hoping for, there has to be an answer somewhere, you
know?...
Right.
|
| VL: |
... And what better
place is it than a part of the government, because they're
supposed to protect us anyway, right? Because my husband
went over there and fought for two and a half years... he got
two purple hearts out of the deal, and if you're not protected,
what did he go over there for?
|
| CJC: |
OK. Alright, now
I'll have to confirm what, ah... I think it's...
Representative Williamson said: that since 1969 the Air Force no
longer has been made... has been the responsible agency to
investigate UFO sightings... some of the history that the
Congressman told you is correct... ah... before 1969 there was a
Project Bluebook... which Project Bluebook basically was just to
keep up with all the sightings... all incidents where
individuals had seen UFOs and what had happened. In 1969,
that was one of the things that Congress said that the Air Force
will not do anymore. Then in 1974 - 1975, the President of the
United States at that time recommended that NASA, The National
Aeronautics and Space Administration see if it would serve any
national interest to reopen Project Bluebook with the idea of
researching UFOs and occurrences as they happen in the United
States. It was the response back of the National
Aeronautics and Space Administration that they not reopen
Project Bluebook. Now the reason I'm telling you this is that
once you tell you me your story today, I am without any power at
all to do anything here a this level...
|
| BC: |
(agitated) Well
now, what can we do?
|
| CJC: |
OK... Alright...
just let me say I'm not, can I get in the position of advising
you to do one (chuckle) thing or another, but let me just tell
you that, other than hearing your story, I have nobody to refer
it to higher than this base here, with the exception of the
agency of the Air Force that used to investigate UFO sightings
and keep up with it. Now that office I'll be more than
happy to forward a brief report of what happened today and what
you told us and it will be up to them to determine whether or
not they will take any action with respect to it. Ms. Cash, Ms.
Landrum, I do not know...
|
| VL:
CJC:
VL: |
(very agitated)
Where... but where do we go?...
Well...
(very agitated) What do we do?
|
| CTD: |
Did you get a
letter that mentions the National Archives, and the
organizations that investigate UFOs?... that you said you got
from Charles Wilson, I believe?... do you have that?
|
| VL:
CTD:
VL:
CTD:
VL: |
No, I, I turned it
over and wrote him a letter back.
But do you have the letter he sent to you?
Huh?... No, I turned it over and wrote him a letter on the
back side of it...
OK...
... and sent it back to him.
|
| CJC: |
Ms. Landrum, the
situation is this, at one time, the federal government
investigated these claims, complaints of what happened, but
there are such... there's such a large number of private
organizations like you've already been in contact with that also
have started investigating, that Congress has essentially said
that it serves no useful purpose to have all these private
organizations investigating it and have the United States
Government investigate it as well. Now, in other words there'd
be no value in doing two reports and if these separate companies
or groups that investigate UFO sightings can do a good job
investigating it then there's really no need for the Air Force
or for the Army or anybody else to investigate it as well. Now
it sounds that you have generated quite a bit of interest from
these other groups, I know that this gentleman that called and
talked with you, also you're going to meet with some other
people, and there was a scientist that said that he wanted to
keep your fingernail clippings to subject them to some tests...
Ah... I can give you an address of the agency in Washington that
used to investigate these complaints and they will send you back
a package of private organization such as those you've been in
contact with already...(unintelligible, covered by:)
|
| VL:
CJC:
VL: |
(breaking in) Well,
we've only been in contact with one.
OK, I cannot sit here and say how many there are or where
they're located...
(breaking in, agitated) Look!... I mean... AH...
|
| CJC: |
...
(continuing) and they will send you an effective package of
people to contact and, you know, maybe even want to yet in
contact with you regarding what happened to you, and see what's
to be done...
|
| VL: |
To put it point
blank, what we thought maybe you could give us an answer of
where to go from here, or what to do, because I'm gonna find the
answer...
|
| CJC;
VL: |
CJC: Well as
I said...
VL: (continuing) ... it might take me a lifetime
but I intend to find it.
|
| CJC: |
Well, my intentions
are in no way to frustrate you if I can help you...
(unintelligible, covered by:)
|
| VL:
CJC: |
(breaking in)
You know what I mean though...
Yes, I understand...
|
| VL: |
... because I'm
gonna find the answer, and it had to be something the government
had up there, you know, and I intend to find it.
|
| CJC: |
Well, what I'm
going suggest is this... we will prepare a report, and again,
it'll be nothing more than just a letter saying that we met with
you today, and that we have copies of the tape recordings of our
conversation as well as Xerox copies of, you know, what we were
able to copy at the time, and we'll forward this to this agency
in Washington that formerly investigated it, it will have to be
up to them whether to contact you to further to... to open up a
special investigation into it, or to correspond with you
directly, but that is the only thing I can do for you at this
time.
|
| BC: |
Well, who is
responsible for us being injured?
|
| CJC: |
(pause)... I'm
afraid I can't answer that, again, I, you know... based upon the
story that you said, you know, maybe you would like to consult a
civilian attorney and see what action he'd like to take to with
respect to that, relative to whether or not I can confirm or
deny that I do not have that ability, nor do I have that
knowledge, as to whether or not it in fact occurred.
|
| VL; |
We just thought we
might be get some answers if we came up here, and I guess we
drove (chuckle) all that far for nothing.
|
| CJC:
BC: |
Well, I can assure
you...
BC: Well, it was a clear try, I mean they've been
nice, and I appreciate it.
|
| VL: |
I know, I really
appreciate it, but I don't want no more uh, uh...
investigators having me go over the deal, because uh... the
thing about is I was hypnotized, I have the tape if they want to
hear the tape, that's fine, but I don't intend to go
through it anymore.
|
| CJC: |
I understand. Well
I can assure you that a bunch of lawyers...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) I
don't, I don't, and there's a lot of quacks, there really is,
that's uh... supposed to be big UFO dealers and wheelers, and
they're not after hunting the truth, they after something...
proving something that's unreal, and it's... what was up there
was real, it hurt us, it wasn't outer space either.
|
| BC: |
And they're out for
a story. And once they make their few dollars off their stories,
which is not true nine times out of ten, parts of it, I can say
may be, if you're fortunate, but uh... they misconstrue it quite
often too.
|
| CJC: |
Well, sometimes
they're out to make a sensational story, they'll get people to
buy their publication, to read it, but my interest in this is,
you know, I have no intentions of making any type of report to
the newspaper or anything, I will do exactly as...
|
| BC:
VL: |
(at same time as
CJC above:) Right... right, right.
Don't put that on his arm, it would hurt him probably.
|
| CJC: |
That's OK, I got a
little boy just about your age myself... Ah... my intentions are
to hear what you had to say this morning and to try to yet it
into an agency of the Air Force or portion of the Air Force that
could help you. I must be frank with you and tell you that I
know of no such part of the Air Force that today investigates
these complaints but, on your behalf, I will forward it on to
that agency and say, look this is what these people reported to
me. I give it to you to decide if you want to do something with
it or not, if you want to do something with it then fine, but,
you know, unfortunately Senator Benson in referring you here...
we're an agency that has not investigated UFO sightings in
almost eleven years. And then we were, in effect, told by the
Congress and the President that we would not be doing that
anymore.
|
| BC:
|
Well, he didn't
tell me to come here for you to investigate UFO, he said to come
here to file a claim.
|
| CJC:
VL: |
OK, now if you wish
to file a claim, we can help you in that respect.
That's why (unintelligible)... that's what we want to
do.
|
| CJC: |
OK, if you wish to
do that... Miss Wolf... we have the documents and the paperwork
to assist you in getting started along those lines, but I must
tell you at the beginning, OK, in as much that I am a government
attorney as is Captain Davis... we cannot provide you with legal
advice...
|
| VL:
CJC:
VL: |
... Well, we don't
need any legal advice.
... the claims forms are the forms which, and they're self
explanatory...
'Cause, we have the proof, and when you have the proof, you
don't need legal advice.
|
| CJC: |
Well... that's...
that's true, I'm sure... but anyhow, the ah... the forms are
self explanatory, Miss Wolf will give them to you and if you
wish to go ahead and file a claim, then, you know we'll process
it in that respect, OK? Now let me ask you, do you wish
that I go forward with this information to Washington?
|
| BC:
CJC:
BC: |
(emphatically)
Sure!
... or that I hold it back and attach it to your claim?
Well, send it on in.
|
| VL: |
Either way, either
way, (unintelligible)... the better I'd like it. It doesn't make
any difference to me.
|
| CJC: |
OK. Again, my
intentions in talking with you today was to find out as much as
possible about what happened...
|
| VL: |
(breaking in) And
we appreciate it, because ah... ah, we've been trying for seven,
almost eight months now... ah to get answers which we get
pieces, a little here, a little there till, um... its pretty
well... like a puzzle you're putting together.. and... we
gonna get it together... it's gonna be fit together.
|
| CTD: |
We suggest that
ah... you get advice from a civilian attorney about filling out
your claim forms and filing a claim.
|
| BC: |
OK.
|
| CJC: |
Primarily so that
whenever you go to process it, or once it's submitted that
everything you need to have is there, and all the things you may
be claiming against are attached to the claims document, and we
have everything, you know, to go by... now I'm sure they'll
require some written statement as to what happened to you, and
if you'd like, you can reference the conversation that we had
today... ah... but I'll assure you that it'll be given the same
consideration as any other claim that is made against the
government, as far as to determining whether or not it's a claim
that the United States Government should pay, and, you know,
it'll be treated with, you know, the same type of consideration
that we give the others... Captain Davis, would you like to
explain to them the claims procedure?
|
| CTD:
PW: |
Ok, we got enough
for both of 'em?
Um hum.
|
| CJC: |
... have to be one
for each of you... one for Colby, one for Eunice Cash, one for
Eunice Landrum.
|
| CTD: |
... And you'll need
two... and you'll need... The forms are self-explanatory, but
you'll need to sign 'em, all this original and like I said, you
may want to consult with a civilian attorney to yet the best
advice on what to do ... but uh ... the claim forms are really
self-explanatory.
|
| VL:
CL:
CJC:
VL:
CTD:
VL: |
OK.
I want to sign.
I think you'll have to wait a few years before you'll know
how.
If you wouldn't mind, (unintelligible) here's our address,
you can just mail it to Dayton.
CTD: ... Dayton is in our...
VL: (unintelligible)
|
| BC: |
I appreciate you
taking your time to listen, because you would be surprised that
we have... of the people... the doctors even, that don't want to
treat a person if they think you've had radiation burns. You
would be surprised, and if you doubt me, get 'em and try to get
a physician to test you.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CTD:
BC:
CTD: |
CJC: I'm sure
I'll take your word for it, Ms. Cash.
BC: (laughs)
CTD: Your name begins with a "C", C-A-S-H?
BC: Right.
CTD: OK.
|
| CJC: |
OK... I'm glad you
came by here today, and again my intentions are to help you in
any way I can from the standpoint of getting you channeled into
the right Air Force Agency, I also have the obligation to tell
you that we have no such agency to investigate or to find out
from it, and I must tell you that as well, 'cause I don't have
the authority here to create one...
|
| BC:
VL:
BC:
CJC:
BC: |
(breaking in)
Right...
(breaking in) If you can't find a good one, just throw it in
the garbage.
(laughs)
We won't do that, we'll keep it for sure...
...because we've had enough of these...
|
| PW: |
We will need to
have these forms filled out, in the original and two carbon
copies, but you'll have to sign all three copies, Ok?... and as
for your son here, since you're his legal guardian you will
sign...
|
| BC: |
Fill each form with
two carbon copies?
|
| PW: |
Yes ma'am... Un
huh... Put the two carbons in and just fill out the one form and
it'll come through, but do sign each one.
|
| CJC:
BC:
CJC: |
OK, thank you very
much for coming by.
Well thank you, I'm sorry that we took up your time, but we
had to get...
My time is your time.
|
| VL: |
That's the reason I
was hypnotized, because, I mean, I, I, I knew I wasn't lying,
and I did it because I wanted these other people to know I
wasn't lying, so ah....
|
| CJC: |
OK, if you would
please, ah... just so that... since we referenced it in our
conversation, the letter from Senator Benson, if you would you
please let us have it...
|
| BC:
CJC: |
Surely.
CJC: ... you know, it would give us a document...
|
| VL: |
I appreciate him
sending it to me, it's more than we could get out of anybody
else... so I really appreciated him taking up his time.
|
| CJC: |
OK, well we
certainly appreciate you coming by... do you-all need any help
in getting off base, or anything?
|
| VL:
BC: |
No, I think we can
make it.
BC: We found it. (laughs)
|
| VL: |
The only thing is
terrible my eyes are bad and I can hardly see how to drive, and
she... her being in the hospital and everything, she forgot she
had a birthday, and when she was sick down here a while ago she
got expired driver's license!
|
| BC:
VL:
VL&BC:
BC:
VL: |
Oh dear! (laughs)
Well, I guess I'll have to drive back today...
(Both together laughing and joking about driving home)
... Unless I go downtown and get my driver's license...
(breaking in) Reckon she could yet 'em down here?
|
| CJC: |
Oh, yes, there are
several places here and they'll make them for you while you
wait, there's one down on, what is that? (unintelligible), isn't
that a big testing center there?
|
| VL:
BC:
CL:
VL:
CJC:
BC: |
She really needs to
drive me back.
Yes, because (unintelligible, laughing)
(talking about driving)
You don't want Betty a driving with an expired driver's
license.
Well, thank you...
(laughing)
|
| VL: |
... Betty,
got her shook up, she give up... turned left on right hand
signal right down there, (laughs).
|
| BC:
CJC: |
Thank you ma'am,
y'all have a good day.
Thank you ma'am.
(Casette end)
|
|