Bergstrom AFB Interview of Betty Cash, Vickie & Colby Landrum, Part 1 of 2

TRANSCRIPT

of taped interview held at Bergstom Air Force Base Law Library Building 2102, 17 August 1981, between Betty Cash, Vicki Landrum, Colby Landrum and representatives of the United States Air Force in the persons of Captain John Camp, Acting Staff Judge Advocate, Captain Terry Davis, Claims Officer, and Miss Pat Wolf, Assistant Claims Officer.

COMMENT by CUFONSM SYSOP

We are very lucky to have been provided a copy of this tape by Betty Cash herself.

The Cash - Landrum case is undisputedly one of the classic UFO sighting/physical trace cases. It assumes great importance because of the traces left behind by the unknown object in the form of radiation effects on the three witnesses and their car. SOMETHING real caused the terrible effects. it is sure that their suffering is real.

Important also is the witnesses' reports of many US military helicopters in the immediate vicinity of the unknown object and the official denials of any government knowledge of the incident.

This case has been widely written about, and has been the subject of a number of TV specials. The sighting has been recreated for least three TV programs. This interview was recreated under the supervision of Betty Cash for the program "Unsolved Mysteries." In that recreation, a map is featured which already has a pin in it when Betty and Vickie arrive at the location of the incident. This was noted by both Betty and Vickie. This tape does not agree with that. True, the beginning of the interview when all were entering the room is not on the tape, but neither is the pin mentioned when Betty and Vickie are asked to locate the site of the incident on a map.

Draw your own conclusions, but note that all three witnesses have suffered terribly, and still do not have any real answers to what it was that they were exposed to.

... Jim Klotz CUFONSM SYSOP Dale Goudie Information Director
4-June-1996

Conventions used in the transcription:

BC	Betty Cash	CTD	Terry Davis, Capt. USAF
CJC	John Camp, Capt. USAF	PW	Pat Wolf
CL	Colby Landrum	VL	Vicki Landrum

A comma (,) indicates a short pause,
ellipsis (...) indicates a longer pause.
Comments such as attempts to convey inflection and such are in parentheses ( ).

NOTE: All names and such are spelled phonetically when confirmed spellings not available. All effort was made to give the same sense of emphasis present in the tape. No other claims of accuracy are made or should be inferred; this is merely the best transcription that we could make from the tape available.

This recording was provided to Dale Goudie, Director, UFO Reporting and Information Service by Betty Cash. Transcribed by Jim Klotz, CUFONSM SYSOP

(tape start)

CJC:	... Captain Davis here, who is our chief claims... He's our Claims Officer for the base to be allowed to just take our little meeting down here on a tape recorder... do y'all have any objection to that?
BC: VL:	No. I have none.
CJC:	OK. Now I'll ask you some rather ridiculous questions, just remember that its so that maybe a year from now if we ever had to listen to this tape again, we would know who all was here and what was going on, what's it about, OK?
BC:	Right.
CJC:	Let the record reflect that we're having a meeting in the Law Library at Building 2102, 17 August 1981 at 1040 hours and present is Captain John Camp, the Acting Staff Judge Advocate, Captain Terry Davis, the Claims Officer, Miss Pat Wolf, Assistant Claims Officer, and Ma'am, I'll ask you to identify yourselves as well.
BC; CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC&VL: VL: CJC: VL:	Betty Cash. And where is your address, where do you live? Route 1 Box 127B, Dayton Texas. OK, and you're accompanied by your...? Vicki Landrum. Vicki Landrum. Is she a relative of yours? No. I was in the incident... OK. ... (continuing) and so was Colby Lee.
CJC: VL: CJC: VL: CJC: CL: CJC: CL: CJC: CL: CJC: CTD: VL:	OK, why don't you go ahead and give me your full name and your address as well. My name is Vicki Landrum and I live at 506 West Clayton, Dayton Texas. OK... And ah... Colby... He can tell his own. OK, Colby, who is your parents and where do you live? I live at 506 West Clayton too. OK, And how old are you? Seven. You're seven years old? I'm going to be eight in January. Eight in January, OK. How do you spell your last name? L-A-N-D-R-U-M.
CJC:	OK, Now... I believe according to your earlier conversation that, ah, you had experienced a UFO sighting and supposedly had received either some injury or certain contact from that. Ah, Ms. Cash would you start off first and tell me exactly the date and what happened and where you were at and so forth?
BC:	Yes. We... it was on Farm Market Road 1485 between New Caney and Huffman approximately between nine and nine-thirty at night on December the twenty-ninth, 1980.
CJC: BC:	OK, Now let me ask you would you please ah, spell those nearby towns? BC: N-E-W C-A-N-E-Y and H-U-F-F-M-A-N.
CJC:	OK. Now in front of you is a Texas map, can you locate this ah, somewhere in the proximity of ah, where this occurrence happened?
BC:	If my glasses will work well enough. I've had three pair since this happened to me and I still can't see that well.
CJC:	OK. (pause... BC and VL obviously looking over map, discussing quietly, general tone obvious, not clear enough to transcribe) ... break in recording...
CJC:	We had a brief break in the record there just to afford Ms. Cash an opportunity to try to locate the location of the sighting on a Texas map, but because of the lack of detail of the map, she was unable to find it. Is this area northeast of Houston? Is that a fair statement to say? OK, Miss Wolf is... can you indicate some of the other towns close to the area?
BCorVL:	BC & VL talking together over map) North west, it's ah... North Crosby, Humboldt...
BCorVL:	Yeah, ah, it's due north of Humboldt, New Caney is due north of Humboldt, and New Caney and Huffman ah, Huffman is then east.
CJC: BCorVL: BCorVL: CJC: BCorVL: CJC: CL:	OK, what... does that... that map reflect the county that they were located in? Liberty. ... Liberty County. (talking at same time): No, We we were in Montgomery county... OK, Montgomery County. ...but we live in Liberty County. OK. No, we live in Dayton County. (pause, ... chuckle from VL or BC)
CJC:	CJC: OK, were you returning from Houston or... what was your reason for being down in that area? Could you... would you mind telling us?
BC:	Well we hadn't thought about it being a Monday night because we'd had so many holidays, and we had gone to Cleveland that night to play Bingo. We got to Cleveland there was no bingo game. We couldn't... we figured out, well it was through the holidays they had canceled it. So we thought well, we'd go on to New Caney, 'cause they had Bingo over there also. We got to New Caney and there was still no bingo, not realizing that it was on a Monday night instead of a Tuesday, and we stopped at the truck stop restaurant there on ... 59 and 1485 (unintelligible)
CJC: BC: CJC:	About what time was that? BC: Must have been about eight, eight-thirty. CJC: P.M., right?

BC:	Right... and after we got through eating, we got in the car and started home, and we drove approximately... I'd say maybe twelve miles, when we spotted this object, and we kept watching it, we couldn't figure out what it was, not ever dreaming that we were going to run... dead into it. But all of a sudden, when we got out on this country road, it just set down, almost level with the treetops. Well, it had lit up the entire sky. Well it was seen as far as fifty miles away from where we were. But, on that country road, the lights were so bright, and the heat was so intense, I got out of the car. I don't know what my purpose was unless it was just normal instinct to think well, maybe I'd be safer outside than I would be inside. But tell you the truth, we thought the end of the world was coming. I mean we'd I'd never in my life gone through such a situation. But I knew that there was no way we could go under it the way the fire was shooting out the bottom of it.
CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC:	Now, who all was in the car at this time? Vicki, Colby and myself. OK. Those are the three people that are here today? Right. What type of car were you driving? A 1980 Cutlass Oldsmobile. Was it a two or four door? Two door.
CJC:	OK. Now ah... could you please just draw... a picture of whatever it was that you saw if it had a discernible shape, and just sign it and date it for me if you would. And again, I realize you're not an artist so don't worry about that, just do your best to try to draw a picture of it.
BC:	(laughing) Vicki says I'm the world's worst.
CJC: BC: CJC:	(Pause, ... Betty apparently drawing UFO. CJC: OK. BC: Its supposed to be a diamond shape, but its not very good. CJC: OK, and go ahead and just sign your name and date it at the bottom. (Pause, ... Betty apparently signing drawing.)
CJC:	Now show it to Ms. Landrum, and Ms. Landrum, do you agree that that was approximately the shape of what it was that you saw?
VL:	Yes sir, but the fire was coming right down to here... (unintelligible)
CJC:	How big would you say that this object was, can you describe it in a term that you are familiar with?
BC:	Well, the only thing that I can believe that I can establish, maybe it was as large, if not larger than a water tower.
CJC: BC:	OK, in other words, it was that tall? Yes... definitely.
CJC:	OK, now you are talking about your standard municipal size... water tower?, there is such a thing as a standard size., ah, yeah, Terry...
CTD:	Did you say this was over a tree?
BC:	It was over the road, it was... they have real huge tall pine trees in that area and it was hanging down over the pine trees.
CTD: BC: CTD: BC:	So it burned the trees up. Well, (sighs) they were very brown, I'll put it to you like that. OK. There's pictures of it.
CJC:	Ms. Landrum, if you would, go ahead and... if you agree with the description of that object would you please sign and date it too? Um... now I want you to tell me once you stepped outside the car, what you did and what happened.
BC:	I walked toward the front of the car, and the light was so bright, and so... the heat was so intense, I didn't know whether to run, to get back in the car, or what, and I stood there for few minutes. Not too long because it was so hot and the light was so bright. And then I stared to yet back in the car, and when I did I had to use the bottom of my leather jacket. I touched the door handle, and the door handle was so hot I couldn't stand it with my bare hand, so I got the pocket of my leather jacket to open the car door and get back in. And at this time it was... fire would shoot out of it and then it would let up, when it would let up... it made... I don't know what kind of sound to tell you it was making, it... similar to air brakes... or?... a whooshing sound.
VL: CJC: VL:	(breaking in) We're going to a radio station to detect the sounds today. Sorry, Ms. Landrum, what did you say? We're going to a radio station to detect the sounds, when we get back to Houston.
CJC:	OK. Now if you would, what else... what other information that you... that you can give us.
BC:	Well, I had not killed the motor on the car, I had put it park. The radio was playing on low, but the car completely went dead. I mean, it was like somebody had turned a switch off on it. And when the thing began to lift up, well we were all horrified... well in fact Vicki's the one, I guess maybe I would have tried to have gone on under it, that's how scared I was. But she screamed for me to stop, and right where she put her hands, her fingerprints are still on my dash, it melted my dash in the car with her fingerprints imbedded. So we... I finally got the car started and it was so hot I had to turn on the air conditioning in order for us to get cool. And by that time we were all burning up. It was just... well it's just something really you've got to experience to really describe.
CJC:	How long did the... this UFO remain over your vehicle and how far above it was it?
BC:	Well, they measured and I think it was what... about 60 to 80 feet and we had stopped about 130 to 133 feet from it... back... from the object.
CJC: BC: CJC:	So it was about... you were 130 feet away from it... and it was how many feet high? 60 to 80 feet... above. OK, and ah... how long did this sighting last, how long were you exposed to it?
BC:	Well, I'd say about 15 to 16, 17 minutes, it seemed like hours to me, but it couldn't have been that long because when I got home it was ten minutes till ten, which is approximately a twenty minute drive from where this happened.
CJC: BC: CJC:	Did you report it to any authorities or anything at that time? Sure did. Who did you report it to?
BC:	Well, (sighs)... we kept calling Washington, in fact I still have the phone number. And they said that they would have someone come out and check. Well they got in touch with Bill English with A-R-P-O, and he contacted us.

CJC:	What is the A-R-P-O?
VL:	Its the A-P-R-O, it's uh... uh... research of UFOs uh.. that's uh not, I mean they don't have no means of support, other than they do it on their own, you know, it's just like an organization which... uh... cause these are people who do care about people that get hurt.
CJC: BC: CJC:	Let me ask you did you report it to any law enforcement authorities. Yeah, sure. Who did you report it to?
BC:	I didn't report it to any of 'em, I was too sick, by the time I got home, I had blisters all over my head, my face, my back, my neck, I was burning... from the inside out. Vicki is the one that called everybody and tried to get help for me. Because she couldn't get a doctor to see me at the time, and a policeman in Dayton is the one that gave her the number to call, wasn't it Vicki?
VL: CJC: VL:	Uh huh... and he had to hunt it up and it took him about two days to find it. OK, alright... Uh Huh... (unintelligible)... Dayton about two days running...
CJC:	Ms. Landrum, we'll have... you'll have a full chance to add to or expand upon it, so you'll have an opportunity to speak in a minute... um... did... you mentioned, I think, to Miss Wolf the other day, last Friday when you called, that you had contacted a Congressman and he had referred you here, would you basically tell us how that came about?
BC:	Ah, Yes. Alan Hendry, who I don't know, never heard of, from Atlanta, Georgia contacted me and said he wanted to help any way he could and he's the one who asked me to write to Charles Wilson, to Lloyd Benson and to John... uh... Tower, and he said he felt sure that that way I could get some help. Charles Wilson referred me to a Mr. Glass in Van Nuys California, who is a UFO researcher or something, but... Lloyd Benson wrote a real nice letter back and asked me to come here and talk with y'all, and he felt sure that you-all'd try to help in any way you could.
CJC: BC: CJC BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC:	CJC: OK, do you have a copy of this letter today? BC: No, I don't. CJC: Ok, do... did you write Senator Tower? BC: Yes, I did. CJC: And what response, if any, did you get from him? BC: Not any yet. CJC: How long ago was it that you wrote? BC: Approximately three weeks ago.
CJC:	OK. And Senator Benson recommended that you come here and talk to the Staff Judge Advocate or talk to who?
BC:	He said the Judge Advocate at the Claims Office at Bergstrom Air Force Base, I've got... wrote down, mother, I was at her house when I wrote the letters, and she called me to tell me that I had gotten the letter and to come down here.
CJC:	OK, would you be so kind as to send us a copy... Miss Wolf, would you write down our address here... would you send us a cop of that letter?
BC:	Yes, I'll be glad to.
CJC:	Alright, fine. OK, um... now let me ask you what is your reason for your coming here, I know you talked with Senator Benson and he said come here, but what do you...
BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC:	(breaking in) Because of the helicopters. OK, would you tell us about the helicopters now? Yes, there was helicopters completely around the object. OK. And its the type of helicopters that I've never been used to seeing. OK.
BC:	They were the ones that had two deals, two rotors on them, and they were quite a few. We drove on up the road and pulled over and stopped, and I counted twenty three.
CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC:	CJC: OK, did these helicopters have any type of markings? BC: Yes, they sure did. CJC: And what type... BC: They had "United States Air Force". CJC: OK, and you say there were about 23 of them?
BC:	Yes, that I counted. Vicki says she counted 26. Who knows? We were all so sick and burning and hot and scared till... that I don't say that we didn't vary.
CJC: BC: CJC:	Did your U... Did the UFO you saw have any markings on it that you could see? Not that I could see, the light was so bright. Now uh... did the helicopters stay with this UFO or...?
BC:	Yes, ah... in fact, would you believe the first thing that entered my mind was about the pilots that were in the helicopters, because of the heat that we were feeling there. I was scared for them, to tell you the truth.
CJC: BC: CJC:	Approximately how far away were the helicopters from this object? (lowered voice) Not very far. Would you give me a distance in feet, or in football lengths, football field lengths?
BC:	I don't think they'd be... that they were that far, maybe so, I can't, I won't say. Because unless I can be sure I'm not going to say.
CJC:	Uh.. when you're using this description of a water tower, you know, it was that far above the ground or it was, you know, As big as a water tower, do you have a water tower in mind that you are referring to? or that you're using as a standard? is there one in Clayton Texas, that you're... ?
BC: CJC: BC: VL: CL:	You mean Dayton? Dayton Texas. No... I... is there a water tower there? There's one there. There's two of them.
CJC:	Well I'm trying to... there's any different... there's a number of different sizes of water towers, I'm just trying to get an idea of how big the UFO was, and you say its about the size of a water tower, I'm just trying to say is it as big as a water tower that you've seen, you could tell me where... ?
BC:	Well, yeah, I've seen them all over the country. You know, standing high, but I mean there's no certain water tower that I'm speaking of. But I've just seen them going into cities and things. They have big white water towers usually.

CJC: CTD: BC: CTD: BC: CTD: BC: CTD: BC: CTD:	OK. Uh... Terry. What exactly did you see on the side of the helicopters? what exactly did it say? Uh... "United States Air Force". Written out (clears throat) completely long? No. OK, what... It was round. No, I mean you saw the words "United States Air Force" all the words were spelled out? No. Ok, that's what I'm asking, exactly what did you see?
CJC:	Why don't you... right here on this piece of paper where you put your name and all... why don't you write down the words exactly as you saw them on the sides of the helicopters.
CL: VL:	(unintelligible) -... that landed in Dayton? Shhhh. (Pause apparently writing...)
CJC:	OK. now you've written that out with a... was it printed?... or written?... I wanted you give me exactly as you saw it.
BC: CJC: BC:	No, it was printed out. Printed out, OK. Alright, ah... (breaking in) Do you want me to put here "printed out?"
CJC:	No, that's OK. Why don't you just put your initials by that. (pause) OK. ... Now um... these were the type that had twin rotors on top?
BC: CJC: BC: CJC:	Right. Now, ah... did you remain there until the UFO left? Yes... very definitely. Alright, and did these helicopters follow after it?
BC:	Yes, they sure did. In fact, ah... they drifted more to the wes..., east, west, or west... over toward Crosby and Intercontinental Airport was the way they were... it was headed and the helicopters were on both sides of it and looked like they were trying their best to get around the top of it. It was unreal. In fact, even driving down 1960, when we stopped at the stop sign to turn onto 1960... we drove to the First National Bank in Dayton which, at the time, was under construction, and we could still see helicopters coming. Now whether they were going to help the other crews or what, I didn't take time to find out.
CJC: BC:	OK, now what type of effects or problems have you had as a result of what you saw? You want to see some pictures?
CJC:	Well if you have 'em, we'd like to see 'em. If you would... remember, some of these are documents we'll not be able to keep, we would, you know, request that you would keep them, but if you would... if there's any of them we could copy for example with a Xerox copier machine...
BC:	There's the first day after it happened.
CJC:	I'm looking at a photograph that indicates that Ms. Cash had some significant hair loss along the side of her... cranium above her right ear and extended back over the crown of her head ... OK.
BC:	This is a picture of the place where it happened.
CJC:	OK, now how long after the incident did you take these photographs? I know that... the pictures of yourself... the pictures were taken the following day?
BC:	(Talking over CJC) I didn't take them... I did not take them.
	BC: No, they were made later, but there were some made and those were made off them.... I had some other pictures... but I must have left them in my other purse. Plus I was completely blistered, in fact I have a scar over my eye where one of the blisters... every time they would come up, they would break open and just... run like water... just sticky water, there was no pus or anything, you know. But they... in fact, I stayed in the hospital for a month, maybe a little bit longer... at Parkway Hospital in Houston.
	CJC: OK, now is there ah... anything else that you'd like to tell us regarding it?
BC:	Yes. I had... I still have diarrhea, I still have upset stomach, I still feel weak, I'm tired, I don't have any energy like I used to have, I have severe headaches... and I have... I'll bet I could count on my hand how many headaches I'd ever had in my lifetime, until this happened. But... it's unreal how my head hurts. My right ear is bothering me right now. Its... the beeping sound... the shrill beeping sound the object was making... it was just like it was... was deafening. That's how shrill it was.
CJC:	Was it like that of a aircraft, you know like around a jet airliner? Have you ever flown on a commercial airliner?
BC:	Oh yes... sure I have.
CJC:	Was it louder or similar to that? Have you ever anything that was similar to it, that you can compare it to?
BC: CJC: BC: CJC:	BC: No, no. That's exactly the reason I'm going and listen to some sounds. CJC: Beg pardon? BC: That's the reason I'm going to listen to some sounds. CJC: OK. Is there anything you can tell us about what you saw or what happened to you?
BC:	Well, the only thing I know that I was sick within 30 minutes after the time it happened, and burning up, I was just like I had been blistered all over, like I had been laying on a beach, and it happened within 30 minutes after... this incident. I were feeling fine before, then all this took place. The next morning I was so sick I couldn't... and craving water, I was dying of thirst, or I thought I was. I felt like I was so dehydrated. I couldn't even get out of bed to get myself a glass of water.
CJC: BC: CJC:	Did you have any special sensation in your mouth? Nothing but extremely dryness... Have you uh... tried... OK
BC:	(breaking in) ... my lips were swollen, my ears were swollen about three times... well in fact my entire body... my family didn't recognize me. When they came to the hospital, they told them what room I was in. They said had they not known for sure that it was me, they wouldn't have known me.

CJC:	Prior to this occasion on the 29th of December, 1980, had you ever been hospitalized or treated for any uh... ailments or problems?
BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC:	Sure, I had heart surgery. OK, and when and where was that? In Birmingham Alabama in Nineteen ... Seventy Six OK, any other treatments? Nothing other than just a hysterectomy... when I was 29.
CJC:	When you was 29. Now have you been you ever been treated for any ah... medical condition that would have required you to have be exposed to any radioactive materials?
BC: CJC:	BC: No. CJC: Is there anything else that you can pass on to us? (pause)
BC:	Well, no nothing other than that they ran every test possible... on me, and the said they could find NO... problems wrong with my body anywhere, to cause me to be in that condition
CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC:	CJC: When you say "they," who is "they"? BC: The doctors at Parkway Hospital. CJC: Do... did you have a physician by name that you could refer to? BC: I surely do now. CJC: OK, What's his name? BC: Dr. Shoney. CJC: Dr. Shoney? Would you spell that please? BC: S-H-O-N-E-Y CJC: OK, does he have practice there in Parkway...or in Parkway... is Parkway in... BC: Houston. CJC: ...wherever it is... BC: It's in Houston.
CJC:	OK. Do you have a better address for Dr. Shoney.. you say Parkway... is it Parkway Hospital?
BC: CJC:	(breaking in) Yes, uh huh. I'm not familiar with it, that's the reason I asked...
BC:	(breaking in) He has, ah... well he has an office too on Antoine. I'm not sure what the address is because if I go to see him for anything, I just drive right to it. (chuckles)
CJC	I see. OK. Now ah... you unders.... you tell me you that currently still have dysentery and some hear loss, is that... hearing loss, is that correct?
BC:	I still have headaches, I still have upset stomach, I still can't take a hot bath, if I do, I look like a burn victim all over again.
CTD: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC:	OK just a min... (break in recording) Ok, would you... I can't stand the heat OK. You're... so... in other words you're heat sensitive? Tell me about it. What about exposure to sunlight?
BC:	I can't take the sunlight. I mean It's just to the point where I have to stay in the house unless it gets out after it gets cool in the afternoon and the sun goes down, or either I am in the bed sick the next day.
CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: CTD: CJC:	OK. Now does this include... what part of your bodies are heat sensitive? My entire body. Entire body... OK. Alright, uh... let me ask you, how old are you? Fifty two. Fifty two. Alright uh... May I ask some questions? Yeah, why don't you ask some questions.
CTD:	The only question... you said something about her hands touching the dashboard of your car...
BC: CTD:	Right. And you said something melted?... the dashboard melted, is that what you said?
BC:	Well, I guess that the dashboard melted, her fingerprints right where she pressed on my dash, when I threw on my brakes to save, to keep from going under it... they're imbedded in my dash.
CTD: BC: CTD:	And is that car here today? No, it's in Alabama; I flew out. Oh...
BC:	I'm not able to drive that distance. My mother came down here and took me back to Alabama because I wasn't able to take care of myself.
CJC: BC: CJC: CTD: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC: BC: CJC	OK now... you gave an address as being in Clayton Texas. (breaking in) Dayton. Dayton Texas. She lives on Clayton Street. OK, are you currently living in Alabama now? Yes. What's your address there? 209 48th. Street in Fairfield, Alabama. Fairfield. I'm a little bit familiar with Alabama. Are you? ... close to the area, not Fairfield, but not far from it.
BC:	Well right now it's almost like being in Birmingham, used it was 12 miles out of town, it was a long way out in the country.
CJC:	Yeah, Birmingham has grown quite a bit. OK, and ah... is it because of this incident you moved back to Alabama or... ?
BC:	Right.
CJC:	Now let me ask Ms. Landrum some questions. Ah... is there any observances or anything that you saw during the sighting that differs from what Ms. Cash saw?
VL: CJC:	Well, no, but there's something that she didn't tell. OK, and what's that?.
VL:	Okay they... when she was talking about the fire... ah... when it would come... you know, it was hanging up, you know, over the trees... when the fire'd come down, it would lift up, and when the fire'd let up, you know... when the fire'd kinda go away... that's when it would come back down... and finally when big gust of fire came down and the sound was so shrill, that's when it lifted to where it would get up and go away.

CJC:	OK. Now what, if anything happened to you as a result of being...
VL:	Well um... you can see the scars on my arms, and when I get out in the sun you can see that this come up in a big blister Saturday when it ... happened. And uh... my eye doctor said that there's a possibility that within a year or year and a half that he'll have to operate. there's a possibility when he operates on my eyes, because ah... the film is already has.. had started... started forming... you know, a film, like cataracts, except that my eyes was burned so bad that they teared for about three months. Nothing but tears would pour, you know?, and they was swelled so that I could hardly see. And he said that if they were, wasn't ... was regular cataracts hopefully that he could remove them and I'd yet have some of my sight. But if they're imbedded cataracts, that I won't never see again.
CJC: VL: CJC:	CJC: OK, let me ask you, did you at any time look directly at the UFO... ? VL: Yes sir, yes sir. CJC: ...and for how long?
VL:	Oh, um... well I'll tell you, he was screaming and crying and everything so, and I thought the world was coming to an end, and I believed that sooner or later we'd gonna have to meet somebody. And I was telling him that ah.. look right in it, you know, I was showing him, I didn't find where the object was, you know when I... it was kinda like a flat... aluminum, I guess, you know, the inside of it looked dark, you know, the object did, and I was telling him to look right inside if he saw a big man it'd be Jesus. And we set there and I kept talking to him to watch for that man to come down inside. And I looked at it from the time she was... got out of the car until she got back in, I got out for just a few minutes and burned my arm on top of the car, and this one has always been a lot worse than this one. You know, I was holding him in and had my arm up on the car, you know, like you kinda hold somebody in the door, and um... but I guess I looked at it... too long. Because I was trying to keep him quiet and show him something that would be more pleasant that what he was seein'.
CJC:	OK. Now um... you mentioned the fact that you had sustained some type of burn or. . something under each arms...
VL:	(interrupting) Yeah, you see when it goes away, it leaves knots like... and ah... and when I went to the doctor there in Houston... I mean I was sick, I had the diarrhea and everything, but I was taking care of Betty, I was taking care of Colby, I didn't have time to go to the doctor, and I didn't have time to carry him 'cause he was like a little baby for over a month. I mean he had no control over his bowels, or his, you know, nothing, and I was taking care of him, and I wasn't going to leave him. And um... so uh... the doctors down there asked me had I been around any poison oak or poison ivy on my arms. And when it finally... the blisters kinda cleared up and left, places healed up and looks terrible. They yet come up, and uh... now the ones that come up is leaving knots.
CJC:	OK, let me just say for this tape recorder say that on your left hand there is a... uh... I think this is the metacarsha... metacarpals upper left hand, portion of her left hand there is a bruise about the size of a quarter, that's uh... kind of a deep purple, and you said that last Saturday that turned... this past...
VL:	This past Saturday we were out in the sun for quite a while, and the sun does it to me. Just like one's been right here it was a big old blister, you know, it'd go away and come up a like a scar. like this.
CJC:	OK. And that there are several scars and blisters on the lower portion of her arm and hands. Now ah... let me ask you did...
VL:	(breaking in) And my fingernails come off, they're, they're they're back now but they come completely off, my fingernails did. I saved the fingernails for some scientist.
CJC: VL:	You say you saved them, have you turned them over to any scientists or anything? I'm fixing to, I've got them. I got each one of them tagged and named.
CJC:	Alright, now let me ask you... did you have any other skin sensitivity problems for the rest of your life?
VL:	Well ah... we was completely blistered, and he ah... he's got scars on his face where he had hanging water blisters, on his little cheek and everything, over on that side. Just one, one side of his face because I... the reason I believe its not on this side is because I was hugging that side to me, I think that other side is the one that got it, the one that had the hanging blisters because one side wasn't blistered as bad as the other side.
CJC:	Alright, let me ask... just specifically about you though, are other parts of your body heat sensitive or sunlight sensitive?
VL:	No, seems like it's my eyes and my arms because my eyes feel just like they've got sand in them, and I can get out in the sun or anything and it feels just like I want to just put my hand up there and just rub them out I guess, if I didn't make myself stop I could just rub them until I didn't have any eyes anymore.
CJC:	OK, now did you suffer any hair loss at all?
VL:	Yes sir, I lost my hair. But now my hair didn't come out until about, it was about six weeks after the incident when I... about a month, about a month after the incident, my hair started coming out, and it's just come back, I haven't... I mean this is the way it looks since it's come back, I had soft, manageable easy hair to... I mean it was, it was extra fine hair, it was a little like baby hair, and it was, it was kinda, you know wavy, curly I could do anything with it, after it come out and came back, this is what I got... cause I'm ashamed to even go to the grocery store.
CJC:	Ah... did you, either of you, experience any... I know you mentioned you experienced dysentery, but did any of you experience nausea?
VL&BC:	OH...!
VL:	... Oh... sick! You ain't.. I was... I'd get up to go to the bathroom, and I'd be.. I'd get so sick that I'd have to lay down on the bathroom floor until I got able to get back to bed.
CJC:	OK. Now can you give us any more information regarding the UFO itself?... what you saw, or a better description or can you compare the size of it to anything?
VL:	(breaking in) Well, it was about the size of ah... I'd say a BIG water tower... um.. not at the top, you know, but I mean it come kinda down this a way, but it was long, it wasn't no short, it was long.
CJC:	How many flames, separate flames did you see from the bottom, 1, 2, 3..?
VL:	(breaking in) Well there was so many, there was so many... much light, that honestly I was only seeing one, I mean there wes just... like the flame come down, you know? ... just like, just like a rocket... just like you'd shoot off a rocket or something, you know how the flame will come down?
CJC:	Yeah, how many separate flames did you see, did you see more than one flame at a time?