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FREDERICK M. OLSEN III vs. THE
NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY
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THE INTERROGATORIES of FREDERICK M. OLSEN III vs. 25-May-1997 - In 1992, Frederick M. Olsen of Madison Wisconsin brought suit in United States District Court in the Western District of Wisconsin against the National Security Agency (NSA) under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) for release of the in camera affidavit of Eugene P. Yeates (then Director of NSA (DIRNSA)) from the 1980 case between Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS) and NSA. This affidavit is the document which was released under FOIA after the CAUS vs. NSA case ended in an almost entirely blacked out state. It is this document which Stanton Friedman likes to show as tangible proof of NSA UFO secrecy. In the course of the lawsuit, Mr. Olsen submitted a set of interrogatories (questions) to NSA. The answers given provide a fascinating look into NSA's official stance on the UFO question. It is because of this that we are providing the text of the Interrogatories and NSA's answers here. We have also included the NSA FOIA response letter which accompanied the packet of material on the Olsen lawsuit received from NSA. Additionally, we are providing the text of a document released by NSA titled UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions written by an influential NSA employee, now deceased. This paper is mentioned in the interrogatories and NSA's responses, and was included in the FOIA release. NSA describes this document as having been written by its author for "personal reasons." NSA declares that the document was "never published, issued, acted upon or responded to by NSA or any other government agency." We think the paper talks sense, and also think that other documents released to FOIA requesters show that a response similar to that mentioned in the "tale of the rattler" was indeed undertaken by elements of the U.S. government at least during the late 1940s and the 1950s. Indications point to continuing intense government interest in UFO and the technology they represent. ... Jim Klotz CUFON SYSOP ============================================================= Notes on text reproduction conventions used: Text which appears in: [ ] is blacked out in the original. Characters replaced by $ are illegible in the original Double ================ lines of equal signs indicate a break between A single line of =========== equal signs indicates a page break within a document. ============================================================= ! FOIA reply letter ! NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY Serial : J9732A-92 Mr. Dale Goudie This responds to your 19 September 1992 Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for an index of classified documents and any other documents released as a result of, or in conjunction with the lawsuit titled Frederick M. Olsen III v. National Security Agency. We provided you with a negative response on 16 October 1992 and reopened your case following your 2 November 1992 letter wherein you restated your request advising that you wanted all documents related to the above mentioned lawsuit. For the purpose of fee assessment, you have been placed in the "all other" category for this request. You agreed to incur fees up to $30.00 in your letter postmarked 6 July 1995. The enclosed documents have been reviewed by this Agency as required by the FOIA and information exempt from release has been deleted. Some of the information deleted from the documents was found to be currently and properly classified in accordance with Executive Order 12958. This information meets the criteria for classification as set forth in subparagraph (b) of section 1.5 and remains classified CONFIDENTIAL as provided in section 1.3 of Executive Order 12958. The information is classified because its disclosure could reasonably be expected to cause damage to the national security. Because the information is currently and properly classified, it is exempt from disclosure pursuant to the first exemption of the FOIA (5 U.S.C. section 552(b) (1) ). Information which would reveal NSA/CSS functions and activities and names of NSA/CSS employees have been deleted from the enclosures. These deletions are exempt from disclosure pursuant to the third exemption of the FOIA which provides for the withholding of information specifically protected from disclosure by statute. The specific statute applicable in this case is Section 6, Public Law 86-36 (50 U.S. Code 402 note). ============================================================= Serial: J9732-92 In addition, an individual's phone number has been deleted from the enclosures in accordance with 5 U.S.C. 552 (b) (6). This exemption protects from disclosure information which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy. In balancing your need for the information you request against the privacy interests involved, we have determined that the privacy interests sufficiently satisfy the requirements for the application of the (b)(6) exemption. Since these deletions may be construed as a partial denial of your request, you are hereby advised of this Agency's appeal procedures. Any person denied access to information may, within 60 days after notification of the denial, file an appeal to the NSA/CSS Freedom of Information Act Appeal Authority. The appeal shall be in writing addressed to the NSA/CSS FOIA Appeal Authority (N5P5), National Security Agency, 9000 Savage Road STE 6248, Fort George G, Meade, MD 20755-6248. The appeal shall reference the initial denial of access and shall contain, in sufficient detail and particularity, the grounds upon which the requester believes release of the information is required. The NSA/CSS Appeal Authority will respond to the appeal within 20 working days after receipt. Among the records being released to you is attorney work-product prepared in anticipation of (or during) litigation. Although this information meets the criteria for withholding under the fifth exemption of the FOIA, NSA is using its discretion to release this information to you. Department of Justice (DoJ) information is being provided to you on behalf of that Agency. However, some DoJ employee names have been deleted on behalf of DoJ pursuant to (b) (7) (C) of the FOIA. Any appeal of the denial of the DoJ information should be addressed directly to that agency. The information in the documents entitled "UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions" and "In Camera Affidavit of Eugene F. Yeates" was deleted prior to our review and is how the documents appear in the Olsen litigation file. Therefore, no exemptions for the deletion of this information are being cited and the above appeal procedures do not apply to the deletion of this information which has been bracketed in blue for clarification purposes. ============================================================= Serial J9732A-92 Please be advised that portions of UFO document lists dated 9 October 1980 to present have been whited out because those portions contain lists of other agencies' documents. Because we are unable to make determination as to the releasability of other agencies' information, this information has been referred to the appropriate agencies for review and direct response to you. The costs incurred to you in the processing of your request total $15.60. This fee represents the duplication of 104 pages in excess of the 100 free pages you are allowed as an "all other" requester. The cost is computed in accordance with DoD Regulation 5400.7-R, which assesses $.15 per page for duplication. A bill for that amount due will he sent to you under separate letter Sincerely,
/s/ James P. Cavanaugh Encls : ============================================================= ! NSA answers to Olsen interrogatories ! UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
ANSWERS TO INTERROGATORIES INTERROGATORY NO. 1 What is the National Security Agency's (NSA) definition of the term "National Security"? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 1 "National security" is defined by Executive Order 12356, 3 C.F.R. 166 (1982), reprinted in 50 U.S.C.A. 401 note, section 6.1 (e). "'National Security' means the national defense or foreign relations of the United States." NSA subscribes to the definition of "national security" in the executive order. INTERROGATORY NO. 2 Which Countries, governments, organizations, persons or other entities of any kind whether single or composed of a plurality, could cause "exceptionally grave damage to the "National Security" of the United States of America (as defined by NSA in their answer to the preceding interrogatory) by having access to the UFO-related information contained in the redacted portions of the document at issue in this FOIA case? AGENCY RESPONSE NO 2 Any country, government, organization, person, or other entity of any kind could cause "exceptionally grave damage" to the national security by not properly safeguarding classified information. Classified information is safeguarded from unauthorized disclosures by requiring that access to classified information be granted only to persons who possess the appropriate security clearance and who possesses a valid need-to-know particular information. INTERROGATORY NO. 3 What are the dates of origin of all documents referenced in the document at issue in this case? AGENCY RESPONSE NO 3 The dates of origin range from 1955 to 1980. INTERROGATORY NO. 4 The NSA ignored that part or the initial FOIA request in this case which requested a projected release date. Why? What is the projected declassification and release date of the document at issue in this case? If there is no projected declassification and release date, why not? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 4 Federal agencies not required under the FOIA to answer questions from requesters; the requirement is to provide documents responsive to requests. In accordance with E.0. 12356, Sec 3.4 (e) and 32 C.F.R. Part 2001 2001.31 (c) (iv), cryptologic material is reviewed (emphasis added) for classification when it is 50 years old. At that time a determination is made as to the need for continued protection. The affidavit at issue will be reviewed in 2030 for possible declassification. INTERROGATORY NO. 5 Provide projected declassification and release dates for all unreleased documents referenced in the affidavit at issue in this case. If there are no projected declassification and release dates for these documents, why not? AGENCY RESPONSE NO 5 All cryptologic documents will be reviewed for possible declassification when 50 years old, that is, from 2005 until 2030. Non-cryptologic documents have been or will be reviewed when 30 years old, from 1985 until 2010. All eligible documents have been reviewed and only those deemed by classification experts to warrant continued protection have been withheld from FOIA requesters, including plaintiff. INTERROGATORY NO. 6 What is the number of UFO related documents in possession of NSA, regardless of origin, dated in time forward from the filing of the affidavit at issue in this case? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 6 There are 92 documents. Correspondence to and from and about FOIA requesters who have asked for records relating to UFOs have not been considered here as responsive to the interrogatory. INTERROGATORY NO. 7 Are the reasons for secrecy outlined in the affidavit in question still valid in the opinion of the NSA, or have parts of the document, especially those redacted, become in effect, historical? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 7 The reasons for secrecy outlined in the affidavit have been determined to be still valid by appropriate classification authorities at NSA. The portions of the affidavit that no longer require protection have been released to the plaintiff. INTERROGATORY NO. 8 Please confirm that all codes, ciphers and exact methods of encryption in use at the time of origination of the documents referenced in the affidavit at issue in this case are no longer in use by NSA, or other terrestrial human parties from whom signals and/or communications were intercepted. AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 8 If any codes or ciphers or methods of encryption were in use at the time of origination of the documents referenced in the affidavit at issue, information about them would remain classified -- that is one of the bases on which a determination is made as to whether particular material must be classified in accordance with Executive Order No. 12356. INTERROGATORY NO. 9 Does NSA have knowledge or belief that some UFOs are not terrestrial in origin? Has NSA received signals and/or communications that it believes to be extraterrestrial in nature? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 9 NSA has no knowledge or belief regarding the origin of UFOs. NSA's foreign intelligence information mission, described in the unclassified annex to these Answers to Interrogatories, encompasses a communications intelligence mission. In fulfilling this mission, NSA collects data on objects emitting electromagnetic signals. These sources are not always readily identified upon initial observation, hence some are considered "unidentified" until they are categorized. None of the agencies supported by NSA have levied a requirement on NSA to produce intelligence on UFOs. In response to FOIA requests numerous searches have been conducted for documents relating to "unidentified flying objects." Keep in mind that many, many signals are at first unidentified and when a computer search is made using "UFO' as a keyword, some such documents will surface. This does not mean the documents are responsive to a request for "unidentified flying objects" as that term is commonly understood by the public. INTERROGATORY NO. 10 What is NSA's role in NASA's SETI program? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 10 NSA has no role in any program called SETI, whether a NASA program or not. INTERROGATORY NO. 11 Does NSA. have knowledge or belief that some UFOs are terrestrial in origin, representing the existence of advanced military aircraft or spacecraft of foreign terrestrial human governments which are publicly recognized by the United States? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 11 NSA has no knowledge or belief regarding the origin of UFOs. INTERROGATORY NO. 12 Does NSA have knowledge or belief that some UFOs are terrestrial in origin, representing the existence of advanced aircraft or spacecraft of terrestrial human non-governmental organizations, individuals, or entities whether singular or composed of a plurality, not supplying or intending to supply such technology to governments? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 12 NSA has no knowledge or belief regarding the origin of UFOs. INTERROGATORY NO. 13 Does the NSA have knowledge or belief that the uncontrolled intrusions of UFOs into United States airspace represent a threat to national security? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 13 NSA has no knowledge or belief regarding the intrusions of UFOs into United States airspace. INTERROGATORY NO. 14 If the existence and activity of UFOs do not represent a threat to national security, how can the release of NSA information regarding UFOs harm national security, if words which concern the disclosure of organization, personnel, functions and activities of NSA, intelligence sources and methods, cryptology, or installations relating to national security, are redacted? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 14 No portion of the contents of COMINT reports may be disclosed because revealing the information would have the effect of identifying for the target communicators the specific communications that had been intercepted. If all words concerning the organization, personnel , function and activities of NSA, intelligence sources and methods, cryptology, or installations relating to national security were removed, the remaining words and phrases, such as "a," "the," "and," etc. would be meaningless. INTERROGATORY NO. 15 Do some UFOs have direct relation to the origin or NSA and/or its organization, personnel, functions, activities, intelligence sources and methods, cryptology, and installations relating to national security? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 15 NSA has no knowledge or belief regarding the relationship of UFOs to the origin of NSA. INTERROGATORY NO. 16 The late Lambros D. Callimahos , NSA employee and founder of the "Dundee Society", a group within NSA, authored a monograph for restricted intra-agency distribution in 1968, entitled "UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions." This document, a seven-page Socratic discussion of UFOs concludes with what has become known as "The Tale of the Rattler", which I shall here quote.
NSA monitors and assesses allegations of UFO activity worldwide for reasons of national security. Why should it be any different for any intelligent and concerned citizen of this nation, or indeed, any human being on this planet? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 16 NSA has no agency records on a "Dundee Society." A document entitled "UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions" does exist. It was never published, issued, acted upon or responded to by NSA or any other government agency. Its author wrote it for personal reasons. As explained above, NSA has not been tasked to monitor or assess allegations of UFO activity worldwide. INTERROGATORY NO. 17 How can NSA hope to enhance the security of the United States by withholding information about a possible threat? Has NSA's performance of its duties been so perfect and without mistakes and shortcomings that it can shut out the rest of the nation and the rest of the world from formulating policy with respect to potential issues of security and survival? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 17 NSA's mission is to collect foreign communications intelligence and to report to United States policymakers; not to report to the public at large. INTERROGATORY NO. 18 On 01 Apri11992, DCI Chief Robert M. Gates delivered a "Statement on Change in CIA and the Intelligence Community", a copy of which was provided to me by the office of Congressman Steve Gunderson, 3rd District, Wisconsin. Is NSA making changes relating to DCI Chief Gates' "Statement . . ." and has NSA evaluated the release of information in the affidavit at issue in this case, taking into account these changes? AGENCY RESPONSE NO. 18 Executive Order No. 12356, National Security Information, which governs classification, has not been amended since DCI Chief Robert M. Gates delivered a "Statement on Change in CIA and the Intelligence Community." Director Gates has not issued any guidance to NSA which would alter the classification of the affidavit at issue in this case. The undersigned drafted these answers to Interrogatories. In doing so I relied upon my knowledge of agency activities and practices and the expertise of agency officials I interviewed in connection with this case. The following individuals contributed to these answers: Classification Officer, Information Security Branch, Information Policy Division, NSA Office of Policy; Case Officer, FOIA/PA Branch, Information Policy Division, NSA Office of Policy; Chief, and the Technical Assistant to the Assistant Deputy Director of Information Systems Security, Science, and Technology. The names of these individuals are protected from public disclosure pursuant to Pub. Law No. 86-36 and so are not revealed in this publicly filed document . The documents relied upon in answering the interrogatories and their locations are listed below.
The individuals who contributed to these answers and I possess the necessary security clearances to view each document mentioned in these answers to interrogatories and to truthfully answer the questions. Should the court require a further description of the documents mentioned in these answers to interrogatories, it can be provided in a classified declaration for the court's in camera, ex parte review.
/s/ M. Allison Jameson ============================================================= ! NSA statement from Olsen III v NSA papers ! The National Security Agency/Central Security Service is responsible for the centralized coordination, direction, and performance of highly specialized technical functions in support of U.S. Government activities to protect U. S. communications and produce foreign intelligence information. The National Security Agency was established by Presidential directive in 1952 as a separately organized agency within the Department of Defense. In this directive, the President designated the Secretary of Defense Executive Agency for the signals intelligence and communications security activities of the Government. The Agency was charged with an additional mission, computer security, in a 1984 Presidential directive, and with an operations security training mission in a 1988 Presidential directive . In 1972 the Central Security Service was established, in accordance with a Presidential memorandum, to provide a more unified cryptologic organization within the Department of Defense and appointed the Director, National Security Agency, as chief of the Central Security Service. The Agency has three primary missions: an information systems security mission, an operations security training mission and a foreign intelligence information mission. To accomplish these missions, the director has been assigned the following responsibilities:
Executive Order 12333 of December 4, 1981, describes in more detail the responsibilities of the National Security Agency. ============================================================= ! Text of UFO Hypothesis and Survival Questions ! [
] U F O HYPOTHESIS AND SURVIVAL QUESTIONS It is the purpose of this monograph to consider briefly some of the human survival implications suggested by the various principal hypothesis concerning the nature of the phenomena loosely categorized as U F O (1) 1. ALL UFO's ARE HOAXES: From the time
when hoaxes were first noted in history, they were characterized by
infrequency of occurrence and usually by a considerable restriction of
their geographic extent. Rarely have men of science, while acting
within their professional capacities, perpetrated hoaxes. The fact
that UFO phenomenon have been witnessed all over the world from ancient
times, and by considerable numbers of reputable scientists in recent
times, indicates rather strongly that UFO's are not all hoaxes.
(2) {Rather than diminishing,} ---------------------------------------------------------------------
DRAFT [
] ============================================================= [ ] DRAFT indications and expectations, are indeed hoaxes - hoaxes of a world-wide dimension - hoaxes of increasing frequency, then a human mental aberration of alarming proportions would have appear to be developing. Such an aberration would seem to have serious implications for nations equipped with nuclear toys - and should require immediate and careful study by scientists. 2. ALL UFO's ARE HALLUCINATIONS: People, of course, do hallucinate. Although groups of people hallucinating is rare, it has been known to happen. Machines have their own form of hallucination; the radar, in particular, "sees" temperature inversions. But a considerable number of instances exist in which there are groups of people and a radar or radars seeing the same thing at the same time; sometimes a person and a gun camera confirm each other's testimony (4). On occasion physical evidence of a circumstantial nature was reported to have been found to support witnessed sightings (5). A continuing high percentage of reports of unusual aerial objects are being reported by people in responsible positions in science, government, and industry (6). The sum of such evidence seems to argue strongly against all UFO's being hallucinations. In spite of all the evidence to the contrary, if UFO's did turn out to be largely illusionary, the psychological implications for man would ---------------------------------------------------------------------
{(2)} [ ] DRAFT ============================================================= [ ] DRAFT certainly bring into strong question his ability to distinguish reality from fantasy. The negative effect on man's ability to survive in an increasingly complex world would be considerable - making it imperative that such a growing impairment of the human capacity for rational judgment be subjected to immediate and thorough scientific study - so that the illness could be controlled before it reaches epidemic proportions (7). (For comments on mass hysteria and UFO's see source 8 below which contains a statement by Dr. Robert L, Hall, a social psychologist formerly with the AF Personnel and training Research Center and the Program Director, Sociology and Psychology, National Science Foundation.) 3. ALL UFO's ARE NATURAL PHENOMENA: If this hypothesis is correct the capability of air warning systems to correctly diagnose an attack situation is open to serious question. {(->24)}a. Many UFO's have been reported by trained military observers to behave like high speed, high performance, high altitude rockets or aircraft. The apparent solidity and craft-like shape of the objects have often been subject to radar confirmation (9). If such objects can appear to trained military men as rockets or air craft and if such objects ---------------------------------------------------------------------
{(3)} [ ] DRAFT ============================================================= [ ] DRAFT should come over the Artic from the direction of Russia or the United States, they could trigger "false reports of missile attacks". (10) b. Many responsible military officers have developed a mental "blind spot" to objects which appear to have the characteristics of UFO's.(10) Such an attitude is an open invitation to the enemy to build a replica of the phenomenon in order to penetrate the "hole" in his adversaries' defenses - Was this the purpose of the lens shaped reentry vehicle tested by the U.S. Air Force in 1960 and recently featured in the Washington, D.C. Evening Star, dated 24 September 1968, page A4? c. Sometimes the phenomena appear to defy radar detection and to cause massive electromagnetic interference. Surely it is very important to discover the nature of these objects or plasmas before any prospective enemy can use their properties to build a device or system to circumvent or jam our air and space detection systems - Any nation certainly could use a system or device to penetrate enemy defenses.(11) 4. SOME UFO's ARE SECRET EARTH PROJECTS: The above referenced U.S. Air Force reentry vehicle and an often publicized Canadian "saucer" project (9) leave little doubt as to the validity of this hypothesis. Undoubtedly, _all UFO's_ should be carefully scrutinized to ferret-out such enemy (or "friendly") projects. Otherwise a nation faces the very strong ---------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] {(4)} DRAFT ============================================================= [ ] DRAFT possibility of being intimidated by a new secret "doomsday" weapon. 5. SOME UFO's ARE RELATED TO EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE: {According to some eminent scientists closely associated with the study of this phenomenon, this hypothesis cannot be disregarded (12) (The well documented sightings over Wash-DC, in 1952, strongly support this view). (13)} This hypothesis has a number of far-reaching human survival implications. a. If "they" discover you, it is an old but hardly invalid rule of thumb, "they" are your technological superiors. Human history has shown us time and again the tragic results of a confrontation between a technologically superior civilization and a technologically inferior people. The "inferior" is usually subject to physical conquest. b. Often in the past, a technologically superior people are also possessors of a more virile and aggressive culture. In a confrontation between two peoples of significantly different cultural levels, those having the inferior or less virile culture, most often suffer a tragic loss of identity and are usually absorbed by the other people. c. Some peoples who were technologically and/or culturally inferior to other nations have survived - have maintained their identity - have equalized the differences between them and their adversaries. The Japanese people have given us an excellent example of the methods required to achieve such a survival:
(1) full and honest acceptance of the nature of the inferiorities
separating you from the (2) complete national solidarity in all positions taken in dealing with the other culture,
(3) highly controlled and limited intercourse with the other side
- doing only those actions (4) a correct but friendly attitude toward the other people, ---------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] DRAFT ============================================================= [ ] DRAFT
(5) A national eagerness to learn everything possible about the
other culture - its
(6) Adopting as many of the advantages of the opposing people as
you can, and doing it 6. COMMENT: Although this paper has hardly exhausted the possible hypotheses related to the UFO phenomena, those mentioned above are the principal ones presently put forward. All of them have serious survival implications. The final answer to this mystery will probably include more than one of the above hypotheses. Up until this time, the leisurely scientific approach has too often taken precedence in dealing with UFO questions. If you are walking along a forest path and someone yells "rattler" your reaction would be immediate and defensive. You would not take time to speculate before you act. You would have to treat the alarm as if it were a real and immediate threat to your survival. Investigation would become an intensive emergency action to isolate the threat and to determine it's precise nature - It would be geared to developing adequate defensive measures in a minimum amount of time. It would seem a little more of this survival attitude is called for in dealing with the UFO problem. {(6)} [ ] DRAFT ============================================================= [ ] DRAFT Observations of chimpanzees while in a captive environment have shown that the animals tend to become confused and disoriented. Since they do not usually have adult chimps to teach them how to be good apes, they are not even sure of their behavior. Often their actions are patterned after human behavior and would have virtually no survival value in the wild. Lacking the challenge of environmental adaptation, the bodies of the animals atrophy and become subject to many diseases - mostly unknown in their wild counterparts. Sex often becomes a year-long preoccupation instead of a seasonal madness. Do the captivity characteristics of modern civilization cause a similar lessening of man's adaptive capability, of his health, of his ability to recognize reality, of his ability to survive? Perhaps the UFO question might even make man undertake studies which could enable him to construct a society which is most conducive to developing a completely human being, healthy in all aspects of mind and body - and most important able to recognize and adapt to real environmental situations. [
] [ ] {(7)} =============================================================
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